That we may be altogether of the same mind and in conformity with the Church herself, if she shall have defined anything to be black which appears to our eyes to be white, we ought in like manner to pronounce it to be black. For we must undoubtingly believe, that the Spirit of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the Spirit of the Orthodox Church His Spouse, by which Spirit we are governed and directed to Salvation, is the same; .... Ignatius Loyola SJ (founder of the Society of Jesus) . |
Wednesday, January 16, 2013
a little ignatian exercise
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would you say that St. Thomas's statements about personal conscience are compatible with Ignatius, or does Ignatius correct Thomas?
the famous anecdote relating thomas' personal conscience has to do with the doctrine of the immaculate conception he knew enough to know that there was precious little by way of biblical or successive theological foundation for the precept it was something that grew out of the pious practices of the faithful and existed largely in the oral christian narrative tradition...and thomas stated that belief in the immaculate conception was not by necessity de fide ( the faith proper ) per se...yet if the church teaches it it is to be adhered to and honored thus...yet i think i cannot say for sure but i think thomas would acknowledge a certain autonomy for the informed conscience...he would certainly see the goal of philosophy as the honing of wisdom...he stated more than once that the only real human freedom was the freedom to think freely...and he probably expected people to work as hard as he did at it...there has been a long historical theological argument one side claiming he laid the claim that mary being human must've needed redemption therefor compromising the status given by "sinlessness" she must've had the potential for sin...but thomas himself as best as i can remember stated that god could indeed have made it so that one so perfect and sinless in the active worldy sense could be conceived in a normal human way...god-willing ...no matter- he obviously felt free enough to lend some logic to the teaching and recognize it within the teaching of the faith as faith and therefor was i am sure i am completely sure no one could tell me different :) that thomas would acknowledge that his thinking was but straw compared to the beatific mysteries of our story
the jesuits ( francisco suarez etc )pulled thomas out of storage in the 16th century dusted him off shined him up and represented him as "the" foundation for theological training which is still basic for seminarians today....which is the church's way of saying -- you can have freedom of personal conscience as long as you can claim some mastery over the works of thomas
grace is necessary for true humility of mind
ta
it occurred to me the other day
when we were talking about this in person
that for you
humility of mind is expressed
as submission to the church
for me
as a scientist
humility of mind is expressed
in saying "i don't know"
"here is what the evidence available so far
suggests to me, but the picture
is incomplete and may be overturned
by new information"
it occurs to me that what often appeared to me as arrogance
in the way many Catholics speak--
bluntly proclaiming the church's
teachings as fact
with no need to be explained or defended--
may instead have been in their own eyes
an attitude of humility
selflessly subjecting their own opinions
to the teachings of the church
i suppose i can understand
how it would seem arrogant
for someone with limited understanding to question
the church's teaching on morals or other matters...
just as scientists
for all their proclaiming
to be open to questioning
find it irritating when people
with limited understanding of science
question thier scientific conclusions
Deep within their consciences men and women discover a law which they have not laid upon themselves and which they must obey. Its voice, ever calling them to love and to do what is good and to avoid evil, tells them inwardly at the right moment: do this, shun that. For they have in their hearts a law inscribed by God. Their dignity rests in observing this law, and by it they will be judged. Their conscience is people's most secret core, and their sanctuary. There they are alone with God whose voice echoes in their depths. By conscience, in a wonderful way, that law is made known which is fulfilled in the love of God and of one's neighbor.
--Gaudium et Spes (16)
Over the pope as the expression of the binding claim of ecclesiastical authority, there still stands one's own conscience, which must be obeyed above all else, if necessary even against the requirement of ecclesiastical authority. This emphasis on the individual, whose conscience confronts him with a supreme and ultimate tribunal, and one which in the last resort is beyond the claim of external social groups, even of the official church, also establishes a principle in opposition to increasing totalitarianism.
--Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, 1968
I found this site helpful:
http://www.ascensioncatholic.net/TOPICS/morality/ConscienceAndMoralDecisions.html
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++...
sorry
i was cleaning some gunk off the + key
interesting quotes
i recall in a christology course
the prof (now deceased) paused for a moment during a lecture and asked if anyone knew what was probably the most important moral revival of VC II...everyone lookd dumb...the retrieval of the ancient recognition of the individual moral conscience...usually this was something that was spoken of in relation to martyrs....some of whom were not necessarily theologians...st agnes for instance...
i'm thinking of a moment in the past when a fellow i knew (still know) was considering applying for solemn profession as a monk here...he was very adamant that this was where he wanted to be despite some obvious dissonance of personality and community...i remember asking if he thought he knew himself very well ( he had converted from the lutheran world ) he said with great confidence that he knew himself as well as anyone his age would know himself...i asked him if he thought he knew the community and he was equally adamant that yes he knew the community and was more than willing to accept the community for what it was warts and all etc etc...i remember being none too sure...i suggested that he think about asking for one more year of simple profession with a concentration on really living the life - he would not hear of it
well he went ahead and the community voted no
and he was full of indignation
so i guess that is one way that a community can test the personal individual conscience and he was free to exercise his personal conscience even if all indications were that it would mean a significant personal disappointment
and i would suspect that it would require some important re-evaluation in faith
the ancient church upheld the wonder the strength the autonomy of some personalities and that is a good thing no matter what but it can also be instructive to recognize that "my" personal conscience could be flawed or deficient
yet i think an unspoken selfsense that almost everyone has is the
"i will be me" of personality...but even that requires considerable nurturing as we learn
to wield ones' conscience in a world of difficulty...say for instance standing up against tyranny or injustice or brutality
requires some virtuous development in courage too maybe some fortitude thrown in for good measure
i love thinking about this stuff with you
jh
but it can also be instructive to recognize that "my" personal conscience could be flawed or deficient
i agree
ignatius's words however
if allowed to just stand there
without context or further explanation
seem to take things well beyond this statement
almost implying that one's personal conscience
is irrelevant
the word's stand there as a catholic consciousness raiser
context - historical personal ecclesial is extremely important
the jesuits were formulating their charism and agenda right at the time when reformers were heated in their critiques of rome...ignatius and his companions assented to radical obedience and became the strongarm of counter-reform and the preferred theological and educational movement from within
in light of this it forces me to think about the nature of theological and cultural chaos in the 16th century....many avowing a complete break in order to salvage the christian project in the world and others genuflecting to what was obviously a dilapidated structure with the intention of bolstering it back up from within
i think those early jesuits did live with the humility that their training and mission may in fact put them in situations where they would defer to rome in most all matters... whereas others were set to react and resist everything based on the judgemnet of impossible corruption
it would be a matter of ignorance however to suggest that there was no creativity no daring no progressive thinking among the jesuits...those men seemed to succeed in places where no one else could make headway...but when push came to shove and doctrinal disputes arose their immediate tendency was to defer to rome even to the detriment of their mission work....i'm thinking of the mateo ricci affair...not a very edifying moment in history of church mission but the jesuits took it in stride and came out of it rather gracefully....largely because they are persistent where others go off angry and elsewhere
i'm reading a good book right now by a jesuit on the merging and clashing of theology and science for our times...i think you ...maybe john...would like it
thanks for your comments
your insights are valuable
in this blog desert
jh
sally
i came across a term yesterday
which i had never encountered and it is connected to some thinking i've done about the scientific pursuit of truth
elisabeth anscombe refers to it as
ultra - or supra utilitarian action
well one thing led to another and i was reading into anscombe and realized she more or less re-ignited the discussion of virtue in philosophy she brought the topic back into the room in the 20th century
this has amazed me
you must know by now that i work out of a pyramid heirarchy of knowledge and it goes back to aristotle but is the developed structure of thomas aquino as well
this structure places science as fundamental...the practice of regarding and curiously testing the real things of the earth is a basic tendency it is the working of the world of physica and aristotle was clear in saying that any useful philosophical pursuit needs be rooted in a healthy grounding as it were in the physica the physical world
some times i look at the efforts of science and i think to myself it's all way too much there are people doing things that needn't be done poking and tweeking a kind of cognitive pre-occupation with nature management...it is out of this that my assessment that everyone must do something gets questioned
the area explored by elisabeth creates a whole new and important thinking space i believe
within her argument for virtue as the only substantial viable context for any sort of change any sort of meaningful improvement in the world she offers a challenge not only to scientists but to everyone...were more and more people to define their lives in terms of virtue it would be vastly different for everyone...somehow i believe this was the standard established by the first wave of jesus people the people on the way
they truly expected people to be guided by a new lease on virtue
and to some extent we'd have to say this worked this became a ultra utilitarian motive for good education and meaningful accords in social agendas
in her most astounding way using language that makes the mind stumble with apprehension before truth...she re-articulates the awareness of the scholastics regarding the existense of transcendental truth
scientific rational questioning is not a bad thing by any means yet i think if i could cast one blanket critique over the thinking i confront in the world it is this lack of objectivity when it comes to wisdom
so i confronted the beautiful thought of a thinking woman last night
and my eyes blink in amazement
does the self-knowing mind know how to dance
you also point out with keen vision that a catholic mind takes solace in knowing that magisterial freedom is where it is at...the full repository of truth does not reside with me alone...my thinking is in agreement with what rome teaches...even if i struggle with that
and that is different than scientific freedom of inquiry
the scientist then must confront the moral boundary of
not
"am i able to do it to change it to tear it apart to view it to poke it to mix it to relocate it to graft it to map it etc etc.
but
"is it wise to do these things?:"
this is why i continue to argue that science has no business in the nucleus of a cell in a mitochondria...it is not wise to go there
i tend to forget that you're a red dirt girl in a scientific sort of way you and your dirt piles...i always think of you as a music partner
blahg bloooz
yo
jh
i just perused the link at ascencioncatholic
a pretty thorough treatment
in one page
seems to cover most all the bases
and of course
if thomas says it
it must be true :)
'twas just so wonderful to walk and talk and be with you this day of february 23 2013
as a late conclusion
to a fine discussion
let it be known
that within ignatius' discipline
there is room for
personal fortitude
a person is allowed to take issue to dissent
yet the teaching is
he should have no emotional
investment in the outcome
indiferencias
with eyes on the cross
i guess not much else matters
:- l
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