it is a collective ineffability somehow highlighting the scientific effort as abstract at best if still useful the awareness lending itself to greater dreaming and knowing
i slept beneathe the radiance of jupiter this past weekend and took some comfort in knowing we know more about that planet
still it looked like a glorious sunrise to me the other morn
the church (RCC and evang.) IMHE disliked Copernicus,Gallileo ,Newton et al not only because the ptolemaic-aristotelian dogma was ...attacked but ...relatedly-- the new science tended to......destroy the humanist model of the universe (and that has continued)--you get that sense reading Descartes as well--RD knew that older models were being demolished (or had been already). Whereas Antares as a reddish star and myth was ...comforting perhaps, Antares as 800 times the size of the sun, like 500+ light years away: not comforting. Even in this Star Trek age.
So IMHE the Church, no longer having scientific or dare we say metaphysical authority, should primarily focus on..ethics (which both Prot. and RCC have failed at). If the Beatitudes is not about Justice it's about...nada
I think there will always be levels to truth, and moreover individuals choose the level at which they wish to work, and indeed, most of us work at multiple levels, as convenience dictations.
Let me illustrate. If my problem is that of getting to work on time, then it is simpler for me to imagine the earth as fixed, with the sun rising and setting relative to my reference system. This is a very common experience, relevant to scientists and non-scientists alike. The three-dimensional dance of earth, sun, and human is a bit too complicated -- it's easier to image the earth as fixed, and us as fixed on it, with only the sun moving.
But if I'm out doing some astronomical imaging, then the rotation of the earth is manifest in the movement of the telescope around the right ascension axis of the mount, as in, Jupiter will be in the trees in another 15 minutes!
But yes, I was taken aback a couple nights ago by Jupiter. I was walking with my wife at about 9:30pm, and as we walked, I saw a bright fixed light at about 10 degrees altitude a bit north of east. I didn't think it was an astronomical object, as there was what appeared to be a solid cloud deck, but Jupiter it was, burning through. Characterizing it as being like a sunrise seems appropriate to me -- I've certainly seen shadows lit by the Moon and Venus, and I don't doubt that Jupiter can cast shadows too, if you're in a sufficiently dark location.
your faith stu is greater than mine on many levels i am so impressed with your unspoken negotiations almost overwhelmed anyway
j unless you're finally succumbing to the inherent necessity of inanity in these arguments i will have to check you hard on this one
you can march back through time even from the first physical theory of existence put forth by fr. maitre all the way back to justin martyr there have been priest/scientists/doctors now it can and should be said that theire writing often crashed against doctrinal walls but it has always been the practice to take plenty of time to adjust to insight and truth we weigh it mightily and carefully mind you and people get impatient with that but i think there is wisdom untold in that i mean the stuff people chew on these days calling irrefutable is amazing to me
galileo remained a faithful catholic he took communion almost every day until he died he even hdad assistants carry him to church when he couldn't walk he forgave the ignorance of the church he was magnanimous within 25 years the jesuits had verified his findings and the church had no problem then incorporating the new vision into the topics on the table certainly the improvements in the safety of crosssea shipping inspired them too...you might say the church was content to see what 500 yrs of excited imagination for huge space time considerations would do how would that bear itself out in the awareness of humanity
thomas aquinas was on the index for awhile until exonerated in the 16th century by suarez and bossuet
i would take it as a supreme honor to be placed on the index by the aRCC for it would mean the longevity of my thinking
you might call it epistemological curing yeah we're good at it
old wine in new wineskins not a bad idea
your critiques j while not completely ungrounded seem to me suspendd in an unnecessary realm of skepticism a willingness to look at things from a distance..as is so chic these days...a form of religious adherence in and of itself
mother church is like up close like a soup kitchen serving tenderloin and fresh veggie
it's plenty warm in here come on in have a seat
the library shelves that would be covered by catholic writers is such that you and i should well be ashamed to even presume to scratch the covers or the dust jackets
i take solace in the church not one of my ideas is orginal i got it from someone who thought of it long ago maybe i say it new i don't know you understand you tell me
and stu i am with you what the exploration of space has given us is a breadth of imagination maybe it's overwhelming for most people yet i think ancient people had a very vigorous sense of space and mysterious depths certainly native american story telling preserves a huge cosmological sense
it seems everyone is leaning more and more to ever more private worlds with cybertendrils out into the vasts
I am not denying the richness and depth--and mystery-- of catholic tradition, scientific and philosophical. But the USA is not Europe ....and the east also quite different than SoCal: out here the priests are ..coaching football, or helping local mex. restaurants, running charities, etc. They're not discussing LeMaitre but ...JoeDimaggio .Or so it seems IMHE.
Yet....as Ive said before, the...catholic Weltanschauung does have some complex..and rational structure lacking in the WASP-evangelical OR secular mindstate. I think it's mostly...linguistic--ie knowledge of latin ,and romance tongues (french,span,etc)--but also the erudition (even if antiquated, dogmatic ,etc) . The parish priest may seem like a genius compared to the local baptist Billy Bob. Compared to....Thomas Jefferson or Ezra Pound..or Nietzsche, not so much. But surrounded by Billy Bobs...it has a certain appeal.
your faith stu is greater than mine on many levels i am so impressed with your unspoken negotiations almost overwhelmed anyway
I'm doubtful. You've committed your entire life to the service of the Lord, whereas I do so within the considerable additional constraints of family and profession. That said, it's not a competition. May we each find faith sufficient to God's will for us!
and stu i am with you what the exploration of space has given us is a breadth of imagination maybe it's overwhelming for most people yet i think ancient people had a very vigorous sense of space and mysterious depths certainly native american story telling preserves a huge cosmological sense
I think we've gained a lot in terms of a theoretical understanding, but in our sin, we've polluted the world and divorced ourselves from creation in such a way that few indeed have much of a connection with the physical reality that the theory describes. So-called "less sophisticated" people were so much more at home in nature, and so much more knowledgeable of its rhythms.
7 comments:
'tis merely evidence that in our ineffable ego-centrism, the frame of reference we prefer remains our own.
it is a collective
ineffability
somehow highlighting the scientific effort
as abstract at best
if still useful
the awareness lending itself to
greater dreaming and knowing
i slept beneathe the radiance of jupiter this past weekend
and took some comfort in knowing we know more about that planet
still
it looked like a
glorious sunrise to me
the other morn
equinox more than apparent
jh
the church (RCC and evang.) IMHE disliked Copernicus,Gallileo ,Newton et al not only because the ptolemaic-aristotelian dogma was ...attacked but ...relatedly-- the new science tended to......destroy the humanist model of the universe (and that has continued)--you get that sense reading Descartes as well--RD knew that older models were being demolished (or had been already). Whereas Antares as a reddish star and myth was ...comforting perhaps, Antares as 800 times the size of the sun, like 500+ light years away: not comforting. Even in this Star Trek age.
So IMHE the Church, no longer having scientific or dare we say metaphysical authority, should primarily focus on..ethics (which both Prot. and RCC have failed at). If the Beatitudes is not about Justice it's about...nada
I think there will always be levels to truth, and moreover individuals choose the level at which they wish to work, and indeed, most of us work at multiple levels, as convenience dictations.
Let me illustrate. If my problem is that of getting to work on time, then it is simpler for me to imagine the earth as fixed, with the sun rising and setting relative to my reference system. This is a very common experience, relevant to scientists and non-scientists alike. The three-dimensional dance of earth, sun, and human is a bit too complicated -- it's easier to image the earth as fixed, and us as fixed on it, with only the sun moving.
But if I'm out doing some astronomical imaging, then the rotation of the earth is manifest in the movement of the telescope around the right ascension axis of the mount, as in, Jupiter will be in the trees in another 15 minutes!
But yes, I was taken aback a couple nights ago by Jupiter. I was walking with my wife at about 9:30pm, and as we walked, I saw a bright fixed light at about 10 degrees altitude a bit north of east. I didn't think it was an astronomical object, as there was what appeared to be a solid cloud deck, but Jupiter it was, burning through. Characterizing it as being like a sunrise seems appropriate to me -- I've certainly seen shadows lit by the Moon and Venus, and I don't doubt that Jupiter can cast shadows too, if you're in a sufficiently dark location.
your faith stu is greater than mine on many levels i am so impressed with your unspoken negotiations almost overwhelmed anyway
j unless you're finally succumbing to the inherent necessity of inanity in these arguments i will have to check you hard on this one
you can march back through time even from the first physical theory of existence put forth by fr. maitre all the way back to justin martyr
there have been priest/scientists/doctors now it can and should be said that theire writing often crashed against doctrinal walls but it has always been the practice to take plenty of time to adjust to insight and truth we weigh it mightily and carefully mind you and people get impatient with that but i think there is wisdom untold in that i mean the stuff people chew on these days calling irrefutable is amazing to me
galileo remained a faithful catholic he took communion almost every day until he died he even hdad assistants carry him to church when he couldn't walk he forgave the ignorance of the church he was magnanimous within 25 years the jesuits had verified his findings and the church had no problem then incorporating the new vision into the topics on the table certainly the improvements in the safety of crosssea shipping inspired them too...you might say the church was content to see what 500 yrs of excited imagination for huge space time considerations would do how would that bear itself out in the awareness of humanity
thomas aquinas was on the index for awhile until exonerated in the 16th century by suarez and bossuet
i would take it as a supreme honor to be placed on the index by the aRCC for it would mean the longevity of my thinking
you might call it epistemological curing
yeah
we're good at it
old wine in new wineskins
not a bad idea
your critiques j while not completely ungrounded seem to me suspendd in an unnecessary realm of skepticism a willingness to look at things from a distance..as is so chic these days...a form of religious adherence in and of itself
mother church is like up close like a soup kitchen serving tenderloin and fresh veggie
it's plenty warm in here
come on in have a seat
the library shelves that would be covered by catholic writers is such that you and i should well be ashamed to even presume to scratch the covers or the dust jackets
i take solace in the church
not one of my ideas is orginal i got it from someone who thought of it long ago
maybe i say it new
i don't know you understand
you tell me
and stu i am with you
what the exploration of space has given us
is a breadth of imagination
maybe it's overwhelming for most people
yet
i think ancient people had a very vigorous sense of space and mysterious depths certainly native american story telling preserves a huge cosmological sense
it seems everyone is leaning more and more to ever more private worlds
with cybertendrils out into the vasts
amen
jh
I am not denying the richness and depth--and mystery-- of catholic tradition, scientific and philosophical. But the USA is not Europe ....and the east also quite different than SoCal: out here the priests are ..coaching football, or helping local mex. restaurants, running charities, etc. They're not discussing LeMaitre but ...JoeDimaggio .Or so it seems IMHE.
Yet....as Ive said before, the...catholic Weltanschauung does have some complex..and rational structure lacking in the WASP-evangelical OR secular mindstate. I think it's mostly...linguistic--ie knowledge of latin ,and romance tongues (french,span,etc)--but also the erudition (even if antiquated, dogmatic ,etc) . The parish priest may seem like a genius compared to the local baptist Billy Bob. Compared to....Thomas Jefferson or Ezra Pound..or Nietzsche, not so much. But surrounded by Billy Bobs...it has a certain appeal.
jh,
your faith stu is greater than mine on many levels i am so impressed with your unspoken negotiations almost overwhelmed anyway
I'm doubtful. You've committed your entire life to the service of the Lord, whereas I do so within the considerable additional constraints of family and profession. That said, it's not a competition. May we each find faith sufficient to God's will for us!
and stu i am with you
what the exploration of space has given us
is a breadth of imagination
maybe it's overwhelming for most people
yet
i think ancient people had a very vigorous sense of space and mysterious depths certainly native american story telling preserves a huge cosmological sense
I think we've gained a lot in terms of a theoretical understanding, but in our sin, we've polluted the world and divorced ourselves from creation in such a way that few indeed have much of a connection with the physical reality that the theory describes. So-called "less sophisticated" people were so much more at home in nature, and so much more knowledgeable of its rhythms.
Yes, I'm just agreeing in different words ;-).
Post a Comment